Counsell to Cubs

[brewers888]

Not a great sign for the future of this team that everyone gets out as soon as possible. With Stearns he knew the Mets job was waiting at a ridiculous salary but Counsell walking away from his hometown team to go to our biggest rival is a bad harbinger of what the future likely looks like for this team.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Not the birthday present I was hoping for here.

I guess Counsell did reset the market, but I really wonder if it has the effect he hopes. Manager salaries had been going down, at least the top-level ones, not up. That trend is unlikely to be changed by one outlier. While not quite as far out of the norm, I'd compare it to giving an NFL team a hefty, fully guaranteed 4-year deal to a 30-year-old running back. Just because they did it, doesn't mean any other team will. I guess it could lead to more managers following Counsell's lead and entering "free agency," but Counsell could because of the level of job security he enjoyed. In most cases, getting the extra guaranteed years on the extension outweighs the possibility for another million or two per that might never materialize.

[dhoffman19]

49 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Also how shouldn't the Cubs not be in trouble for tampering. They clearly were negotiating a contract for Counsell while Ross was still employed. 

That's not what tampering is.

[RobertCrawley]

3 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Not a great sign for the future of this team that everyone gets out as soon as possible. With Stearns he knew the Mets job was waiting at a ridiculous salary but Counsell walking away from his hometown team to go to our biggest rival is a bad harbinger of what the future likely looks like for this team.

I'm not 100% sure I have the timeline right, but it looks like the Guardians and Mets hired managers and left CC to return to the Brewers or find another position. He chose the money.

If he wins the World Series there, I wonder who it will feel. He'll make Chicago happy, but not the vast majority of people who followed him and supported him all his life.  

[edfunderburk]

Ouch … 💔 … the last time I was this disappointed in a Milwaukee Brewer was Dec 7, 1992

[edfunderburk]

I’m feeling the Chevy Chase Christmas rant

https://youtu.be/TQXuazYI_YU?si=k1hoULG_kt1WgxrF

[brooks_quichenick]

2 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

I'm not 100% sure I have the timeline right, but it looks like the Guardians and Mets hired managers and left CC to return to the Brewers or find another position. He chose the money.

I think it's highly likely that Counsell informed CLE and NYM of his decision, and then they hired their new managers. The CC to the Cubs news just came out after.

[RobertCrawley]

1 minute ago, edfunderburk said:

https://youtu.be/TQXuazYI_YU?si=k1hoULG_kt1WgxrF

That it is, Edward. That it is, indeed. 

[Sixtolezcano]

2 hours ago, homer said:

We don't know what the Mets offered. We know the Brewers offered a ton of money. Question is how much more was Cubs offer.

What did the Brewers offer Counsell?

[edfunderburk]

2 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

Oh, that is a fait accompli at this point.  If the Cubs make the playoffs, he’s a shoe-in:  big market, all that attention, the “Craig is finally getting the recognition he deserves” narrative.  The story writes itself, which matters of course, because the journalists decide Manager of the Year.

I’d be a fairly large amount of money on this happening, if I had any confidence in Chicago’s roster construction, that is.  For now, I don’t.

I think he was referring to winning manager of the year THIS year - in 2023 with the Brewers 

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

What did the Brewers offer Counsell?

Rosiak reported $5.5M per year, though I don't believe he reported the number of years.

CC got $8M per year for five years from the Cubs.

[MrTPlush]

9 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Not the birthday present I was hoping for here.

I guess Counsell did reset the market, but I really wonder if it has the effect he hopes. Manager salaries had been going down, at least the top-level ones, not up. That trend is unlikely to be changed by one outlier. While not quite as far out of the norm, I'm compare it to giving an NFL team a hefty, fully guaranteed 4-year deal to a 30-year-old running back. Just because they did it, doesn't mean any other team will. I guess it could lead to more managers following Counsell's lead and entering "free agency," but Counsell could because of the level of job security he enjoyed. In most cases, getting the extra guaranteed years on the extension outweighs the possibility for another million or two per that might never materialize.

One of the main reasons this has little chance to have any effects on manager salaries is the fact managers never get to FA…at least on a high note.

Guys take an extension as fast as possible. Why? Because their job security is terrible. They are always the guy blame falls on and not only do they depend on themselves…but if the GM goes they are almost surely going to. 

Counsell basically used the Brewers and the job security they gave him to have the opportunity to test FA knowing no matter what they would take him back. Even if they imploded last year. Normal managers don’t have that kind of hometown security.

It’s like a RB in the NFL. You better take the chance to lock in some money any chance you got. Because your shelf life is short and unforgiving.

[edfunderburk]

2 hours ago, Underachiever said:

At least it's not the Cardinals?

I agree … but the Cubs are a close second … I’m quite heartsick

[brewers888]

4 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

What did the Brewers offer Counsell?

 They offered a deal to Counsell that was good but it was to save face knowing he was taking the highest offer.

[brewers888]

Attanasio better lock down Arnold long term or we could really be hurting in a few years.

[MT88]

6 minutes ago, brooks_quichenick said:

I think it's highly likely that Counsell informed CLE and NYM of his decision, and then they hired their new managers. The CC to the Cubs news just came out after.

There are reports that CLE made its job offer to Vogt on Friday 11:/3.  
the weekend was spent finalizing the details . 

now perhaps CC made CLE aware he was looking elsewhere late last week or CLE knew it wasn’t going that high on manager salary (even for CC). So it moved along on its own.  Either way CLE ( & by extension NYM) made their choices before CC to the Cubs was finalized

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, Axman59 said:

I knew when Counsell refused to sign an extension with the Brewers and let his contract expire he was gone.

This post makes quite a bit of sense 

[homer]

 

 

[Sixtolezcano]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Some act like we are going to be humbled with Counsell's replacement. 

On a different note, those same people, would be REALLY humbled if Attanasio sold the team like they want him to. Any other owner in Milwaukee probably doesn't even offer him $5mil.

Or move the Brewers to another city

[BrewerFan]

26 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

Ouch … 💔 … the last time I was this disappointed in a Milwaukee Brewer was Dec 7, 1992

Molly was basically told he was not wanted in Milwaukee any longer. The level of disrespect shown to him is...not even remotely close to what happened here. 

[markedman5]

I think this has shocked many because for the most part we aren’t conditioned to managers acting like players.

Typically a manager who is good at his job and is wanted quietly negotiates an extension….with a raise that is viewed as fair by both parties and it gets announced….and that’s the end of it.

CC decided he had enough leverage to go the free agent route…..he also knew that he no team or business entity will bid against themselves. 
 

Brewers made a great offer and no,matter what it was he was going to use it to drive up the price……so really Attanasio was in a no win situation……unless he were to tell Craig we will,match whatever anyone else gives you……and nobody would do that…….especially for a manager.

So have we reached a new frontier where managers are now going to be mercenaries too? It will be interesting to follow……..

 

I liked Craig…..I think he was good at his job and deserved to be well paid for it……which he was……yet if there is one thing I know……everybody hates the manager as soon as he makes a move they disagree with.

So on to the next guy…….who we will like and then eventually come to realize “ He has no idea what he is doing!”

 

[AKCheesehead]

3 hours ago, Turnbows Barber said:

Wow, I did not see the complete heel turn coming from Counsell.

This was my thought too.  Reminds me of Hogan joining the NWO.  Hollywood Counsell doesn't have the same ring to it, and this one isn't fun either.  I always liked Craig but I always wish nothing but the worst for the cubs. This is disgusting.

[brewers888]

Its not easy being the corner store competing against the likes of Walmart and Amazon but thats what we are and always will be unless MLB gets a salary cap.

[edfunderburk]

16 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Molly was basically told he was not wanted in Milwaukee any longer. The level of disrespect shown to him is...not even remotely close to what happened here. 

I didn’t say the two were the same … I simply said the last time I was this heartbroken as a BREWERS fan was on that day

[wiguy94]

I don't know why anyone is trying to make this more than what it is. Just baseless projection from people who don't like our owner or front office implying this had anything to do with how they run the Brewers. It was made abundantly clear Counsell was out for one thing and one thing only, to reset the manager's market. He was always going wherever the most money was. That ended up being the Cubs not the Mets like most thought it would be. Even the Mets weren't willing to match the Cubs offer.