Counsell to Cubs

[Brock Beauchamp]

23 minutes ago, AZ Brewer said:

Ugh. Total punch to the gut. 

Indeed it is. THE CUBS?!?!?!?!

[titanrick]

20 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I realize that, but the market for managers isn't comparable. That's completely resetting the market. Is CC really worth that in the grand scheme of things? No, because I don't think he's that much better than the average manager. Even the Mets and Cohen seemingly weren't willing to go there. 

I sure hope we're still saying he wasn't worth it after we see what his replacement does with this budget-conscious roster.  And we'll have a front-row seat to see how he fares with the Cubs.

They don't have WAR statistics for managers, I imagine.  But the knowledgeable fans of teams with terrible managers are reminded constantly of how important they are.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

3 minutes ago, torts said:

Odds of staying for the duration of the contract?  

Next to 0%. He's going to have to win a World Series in the next 2-3 years, or he won't make it to the 4th year of that deal. The Cubs have some talent, and I expect them now to empty the checkbook in free agency, but they are still a very flawed team. 

[homer]

11 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

If Brewers also offered 5 years, it would have been $27.5M deal. So Cubs outbid by 12.5 assuming all the numbers are accurate.

[HarveysWBs]

Just now, Outlander said:

It will be kind of funny when he wins manager of the year.

Oh, that is a fait accompli at this point.  If the Cubs make the playoffs, he’s a shoe-in:  big market, all that attention, the “Craig is finally getting the recognition he deserves” narrative.  The story writes itself, which matters of course, because the journalists decide Manager of the Year.

I’d be a fairly large amount of money on this happening, if I had any confidence in Chicago’s roster construction, that is.  For now, I don’t.

[homer]

13 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I don't think Counsell really wanted to come back.  The move with Jesse Winker is the proof in the pudding.

I don't think he would sabotage the team.

[MillerParkSouth]

Everyone talking about Counsell's salary are ignoring the fact that Attanasio is too cheap to actually spend on a roster that can compete.  Even if the salaries were equal, the payrolls are not.  Attanasio needs to sell the team if he's not serious about spending to put together a contender.  This is on him more than Counsell, but they can both rot.

[Underachiever]

2 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

33% chance?

Why? Is he gonna quit? Get more money? Or you think he will underachieve and be fired? Not even sure of the point of this. Dude stayed in MKE for 9 years. He's not some job-hopper. Didn't even leave until his contract expired. 

I'm shocked, bummed, pissed off that it's the CUBS(!!!!!), but I don't know why you would speculate his job security. And if manager contracts are guaranteed, that's a nasty buyout. 

Silver lining: At least it's not the Cardinals? Nope, still feels like crap.

[Team Canada]

Not all these opinions are mutually exclusive.

1. MA offered to make Counsell the highest paid manager. That's not being cheap.
2. In a vacuum it's understandable why Counsell wouldn't want to leave 10-15M on the table.
3. For fans, leaving after all he's said and going to your most hated rival just down the road feels like betrayal.

It will be interesting to read Counsell's thoughts.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, MillerParkSouth said:

Everyone talking about Counsell's salary are ignoring the fact that Attanasio is too cheap to actually spend on a roster that can compete.  

Again, the Brewer have won the 7th most games in MLB since 2008, the 6th most since 2018, they've been consistently competitive for 15 years now, even with the massive financial disadvantage they face being the smallest market in a league without leaguewide revenue sharing and salary caps/floors like the NFL/NBA.

[BlightyBrew]

6 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

And had they given Counsell a record contract you and all the other payroll complainers probably wouldn't have even logged in to comment. Pretty much only coming out when the news fits your agenda. 

My only agenda is for the Brewers to win a WS.  

[Matt Breen]

My guess is that Counsell was tired of managing a small market team. Every year it was about who the team was going to lose or trade or whatever. Same slog, over and over again and no end in sight. He probably liked the Cubs situation more than any other place - ability to have big payroll, solid young talent, high salary - and took it (also, it might help Chicago is not far from his home and his kids). I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs are big FA players this offseason - something they probably told Counsel they would be. 

The big disappointment is he knows what this means to Brewer fans. They will never forgive him. It sucks. 

[KeithStone53151]

1 minute ago, Team Canada said:

Not all these opinions are mutually exclusive.

1. MA offered to make Counsell the highest paid manager. That's not being cheap.
2. In a vacuum it's understandable why Counsell wouldn't want to leave 10-15M on the table.
3. For fans, leaving after all he's said and going to your most hated rival just down the road feels like betrayal.

It will be interesting to read Counsell's thoughts.

Gonna be hilarious when he tweets out his thank you only to have fans replying with the middle finger...

[wallus]

The ONLY way this makes sense is if the team is going to do a rebuilding year or two. Honestly, that is the correct move with the Woody injury but I didn't think the team would take that route. (time to trade Burnes, Williams and Adames without a doubt)

With that said, you match that salary Mark A and it's not even a question. For a couple of million dollars difference, this one stings.

[markedman5]

2 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Gonna be hilarious when he tweets out his thank you only to have fans replying with the middle finger...

He's smart enough not to be on Twitter as a major league manager

[HarveysWBs]

2 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Why? Is he gonna quit? Get more money? Or you think he will underachieve and be fired? Not even sure of the point of this. Dude stayed in MKE for 9 years. He's not some job-hopper. Didn't even leave until his contract expired. 

I'm shocked, bummed, pissed off that it's the CUBS(!!!!!), but I don't know why you would speculate his job security. And if manager contracts are guaranteed, that's a nasty buyout. 

Silver lining: At least it's not the Cardinals? Nope, still feels like crap.

The angle is, CC had job security here not just because he was good at his job (and I don’t think any serious person denies this) but that he was the hometown kid making good here.  Things would have to go very sideways for a long time to run Craig out of town with his highest win total and win percentage of any manager in team history bona fides.

But now he’s a mercenary.  The Cubs got him because they blew all the other offers away (apparently).  That means this becomes a bottom line only proposition.  The Cubs are not the total clown show they used to be, but nor are they a top-tier organization, either.  If he does not deliver, let’s say the Cubs don’t win a division in the first three years, and never win a playoff series.  Year four starts to look like a pretty hot seat from my vantage point.

[MrTPlush]

Some act like we are going to be humbled with Counsell's replacement. 

On a different note, those same people, would be REALLY humbled if Attanasio sold the team like they want him to. Any other owner in Milwaukee probably doesn't even offer him $5mil.

[Patrick425]

I'm a bit less angry now that I saw the contract.  Could have argued that it would have been negligent for him not to accept that, not to mention possibly detrimental to the growth of manager contracts as a whole. Also, not sure it would been the best use of money for the Brewers to try to match that. What they reportedly offered him was pretty high as it was.

More angry at a system that allows only a handful of teams the ability to make these types of offers without much risk.

[Axman59]

I knew when Counsell refused to sign an extension with the Brewers and let his contract expire he was gone.

[tmwiese55]

12 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

The angle is, CC had job security here not just because he was good at his job (and I don’t think any serious person denies this) but that he was the hometown kid making good here.  Things would have to go very sideways for a long time to run Craig out of town with his highest win total and win percentage of any manager in team history bona fides.

But now he’s a mercenary.  The Cubs got him because they blew all the other offers away (apparently).  That means this becomes a bottom line only proposition.  The Cubs are not the total clown show they used to be, but nor are they a top-tier organization, either.  If he does not deliver, let’s say the Cubs don’t win a division in the first three years, and never win a playoff series.  Year four starts to look like a pretty hot seat from my vantage point.

Think post in other thread didn't work.   But pretty much this. It wasn't about him hopping, its getting fired.  IMO, barring big FA signings we can't foresee right now the Cubs aren't set up to be more than a middling team the next few years.  If they win like 79, 83, 78 games the next three years he's on the hotseat if not fired.    The Cubs current manager was a hometown-ish World Series hero for them and they just blindsided him after a public endorsement with a stab in the back after a couple middling seasons (this year even being an overachievement).  It's gonna be cutthroat for him there and he doesn't have the years of goodwill and ties to them like he did here. 

[JohnBriggs12]

9 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

The angle is, CC had job security here not just because he was good at his job (and I don’t think any serious person denies this) but that he was the hometown kid making good here.  Things would have to go very sideways for a long time to run Craig out of town with his highest win total and win percentage of any manager in team history bona fides.

But now he’s a mercenary.  The Cubs got him because they blew all the other offers away (apparently).  That means this becomes a bottom line only proposition.  The Cubs are not the total clown show they used to be, but nor are they a top-tier organization, either.  If he does not deliver, let’s say the Cubs don’t win a division in the first three years, and never win a playoff series.  Year four starts to look like a pretty hot seat from my vantage point.

He'll be on the hot seat quickly if he doesn't at least get the Cubs to the NLCS next year. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, Axman59 said:

I knew when Counsell refused to sign an extension with the Brewers and let his contract expire he was gone. And I don't mean taking some time off. Gone to another team.

it is pretty telling that both Stearns and Counsell have decided to leave in successive years. I think they both felt as though they did about as much as they could in Milwaukee, given the obvious market and budget discrepancies between teams. 

As a Brewer fan, I think that's what makes this hurt more. All my life, I've grown accustom to the Brewers eventually firing managers and GMs. But by all accounts, both Steans and Counsell were valued here and ownership wanted them to stay. They chose to go on their own. That says more about the situation than anything, IMO.

[MVP2110]

I just continue to get turned off by baseball at such a rapid pace these days. Honestly the only reason I keep watching is because it's the only sport in the summer. The Brewers are essentially the equivalent of a G5 in college football. The system is rigged for big markets

[tmwiese55]

2 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

it is pretty telling that both Stearns and Counsell have decided to leave in successive years. I think they both felt as though they did about as much as they could in Milwaukee, given the obvious market and budget discrepancies between teams. 

As a Brewer fan, I think that's what makes this hurt more. All my life, I've grown accustom to the Brewers eventually firing managers and GMs. But by all accounts, both Steans and Counsell were valued here and ownership wanted them to stay. They chose to go on their own. That says more about the situation than anything, IMO.

And really its an indictment on how baseball is set up than it is on the owners imo.   After all these years how have they not moved to a system close to the NFL/NBA is nuts to me. 

[brewmann04]

I tell you going 1-7 in the postseason there won’t last with them