Joey O

[Playing Catch]

16 hours ago, MNBrew said:

Worst of all, it's uncanny how many times Ortiz comes up with the bases loaded -- especially with 2 outs

I have no data to back up my personal hypothesis...

The Brewers lineup is usually pretty "deep" in the sense that even most of the poor hitters take professional ABs (Perkins, Collins from last season, etc.). They are pros enough to make the pitchers execute in multiple ways, which is hard to do consistently. Ortiz isn't one of these guys, for whatever reason. So, when opposing pitchers fail to execute, or even choose to pitch around a guy like Perkins, they can relax and just pitch to K, which most pitchers are comfortable trying to do. Or even pitch to contact with 2 down, because compared to the #8 hitter, Ortiz just isn't much of a threat.

Against Ortiz, pitchers can just use their best one or two pitches over-and-over because Ortiz is EASY to execute against. He is always a battery's plan B, which they are pretty comfortable using.

So basically, my hypothesis is that the Brewers' #8 hitters just take really professional ABs.

edit to p.s. - So basically, Ortiz is the least hitter in the lineup. Brilliant analysis.

[shanedog19]

Would anyone else love to see the Brewers promote Pratt and make him the starting SS and slide Ortiz over to 3B in a platoon with Rengifo? While we are at it, promote Made to Nashville and make him the everyday SS there.

[Frisbee Slider]

19 minutes ago, shanedog19 said:

Would anyone else love to see the Brewers promote Pratt and make him the starting SS and slide Ortiz over to 3B in a platoon with Rengifo? While we are at it, promote Made to Nashville and make him the everyday SS there.

Let’s not overlook David Hamilton. He might go the entire season without an extra base hit, but he is walking 17% of the time. 0.5 WAR through 59 PA is acceptable.

[beekay414]

The man struck out vs a catcher lol. He should be demoted for that alone.

[Playing Catch]

Looking through the stats for other teams around the league, the Brewers aren't really in a different position than any other team, based on 2026 performance.

The Dodgers are giving Alex Freeland lots of innings at 2B (58 wRC+), the Yankees with Jazz Chisholm Jr. (55), or Ryan McMahon (49). The Mets' trio of Killer-B's, Bichette, Baty, and Benge (53, 36, 25). The Mariners with Leo Rivas (53). One could argue that Ortiz's defense is more valuable than all or most of those examples.

This isn't to say that Ortiz should be the plan going forward, but that it isn't some kind of emergency situation unique to the Crew.

Every team has these kinds of decisions that they need to make. This just happens to be what the 2026 Brewers will need to sort out.

[landoc88]

Ortiz is straight up horrible. Brewers should have traded him for any package they could have gotten period. 

[beekay414]

Now down to a 30 wRC+ to go with his .000 ISO and .185 slug.

[jay87shot]

What do we do with him? That bat has been epically bad after a first week that was pretty good. The defense is solid as always but if the organization is sold on Cooper Pratt being the long-term SS (evident by the contract) I don't see much need for Joey to be a utility guy. Jett and Hamilton will likely be better utility options and if we have solid defense at the infield spots we won't need a defense specialist. Between Leonard, Cooper, and Jett his spot will be likely gone soon if he doesn't get it together. Is there any value at all in a trade? I don't know if he has an option left but something needs to be done relatively fast.

[Jopal78]

31 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

What do we do with him? That bat has been epically bad after a first week that was pretty good. The defense is solid as always but if the organization is sold on Cooper Pratt being the long-term SS (evident by the contract) I don't see much need for Joey to be a utility guy. Jett and Hamilton will likely be better utility options and if we have solid defense at the infield spots we won't need a defense specialist. Between Leonard, Cooper, and Jett his spot will be likely gone soon if he doesn't get it together. Is there any value at all in a trade? I don't know if he has an option left but something needs to be done relatively fast.

You might want to check Williams and Pratt’s numbers in AAA this year. Neither of them are going to force the Brewers hand anytime soon. 
Leonard isn’t on the 40 man roster which means his path is more complicated. 
 

Where Joey is at with the bat and what would be acceptable for a strong defensive SS is t that wide of a chasm. He’ll keep getting chances until somebody takes his job from him, but without someone breathing down his neck they’re not going to make a change for change’s sake. 

 

[jay87shot]

43 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You might want to check Williams and Pratt’s numbers in AAA this year. Neither of them are going to force the Brewers hand anytime soon. 
Leonard isn’t on the 40 man roster which means his path is more complicated. 
 

Where Joey is at with the bat and what would be acceptable for a strong defensive SS is t that wide of a chasm. He’ll keep getting chances until somebody takes his job from him, but without someone breathing down his neck they’re not going to make a change for change’s sake. 

 

Pratt was better last week after a weird start to his season with the contract, Jett has been inconsistent. I am saying if either is good for the next week or two I think serious thought has to be put into a change. Both do have OBP around .330 and at least for Pratt he has more bb than K's which should pull some weight. Yes, neither look good as call-ups today but if either can even show a sign of being going the right direction it should be considered.

In April, Joey is hitting .128/.212/.128. even by old school pitchers hitting standards that is bad.

[wallus]

I think we will be stuck with a Hamilton/Ortiz platoon at shortstop this year unfortunately 

[adambr2]

Pratt has been swinging a better bat lately. We know he’s our guy going forward. You’re not really losing anything, so I’d be fine going to Pratt anytime at this point and living through the growing pains.

[Madhawk23]

Joey Ortiz with zero XBH's in over 70 PA's so far this year is simply astounding. 11 singles....that's it. 

[RedStickBrew]

40 minutes ago, wallus said:

I think we will be stuck with a Hamilton/Ortiz platoon at shortstop this year unfortunately 

[bensheeps]

With Leonard playing primarily in the OF at Nashville this season, I wonder what he is like defensively on the dirt?  Would his defense be similar to Rengifo at 3B and/or Hamilton at SS?

If the defense is passable, I think he is the filler until Pratt shows a little more at the plate in AAA.  Hope to catch lightning in a bottle and that his minor league numbers translate to his first big league call up.  We do have an open spot on the 40-man... correct?

[Jopal78]

36 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Pratt has been swinging a better bat lately. We know he’s our guy going forward. You’re not really losing anything, so I’d be fine going to Pratt anytime at this point and living through the growing pains.

Other than one of the points of the extension was to unburden Pratt’s development. Calling him up to the major leagues when he’s currently overmatched in AAA is exactly the opposite of their initial intent. 
 

Ortiz is awful with the bat, no argument there, but they’re short on pragmatic alternatives so he’ll continue to get ABs until  someone else’s performance takes his job away. 

[owbc]

The good news is that his defense has gotten him to be exactly replacement level (0.0 bWAR). So it doesn't make sense to replace him with a minor leaguer, especially when he should regress toward his usual level of "pretty bad but not horrendous". 

Relief pitching and RF have both performed worse to this point, LF and 3B are comparable. 

 

[adambr2]

15 minutes ago, owbc said:

The good news is that his defense has gotten him to be exactly replacement level (0.0 bWAR). So it doesn't make sense to replace him with a minor leaguer, especially when he should regress toward his usual level of "pretty bad but not horrendous". 

Relief pitching and RF have both performed worse to this point, LF and 3B are comparable. 

 

This season was supposed to be the season when Ortiz *should* have some positive regression. Instead, he got even worse.

I think we need to consider the strong possibility that 2024 was the aberration.

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

Other than one of the points of the extension was to unburden Pratt’s development. Calling him up to the major leagues when he’s currently overmatched in AAA is exactly the opposite of their initial intent. 
 

Ortiz is awful with the bat, no argument there, but they’re short on pragmatic alternatives so he’ll continue to get ABs until  someone else’s performance takes his job away. 

I actually think this is about as low pressure of an environment, at least as much as that can be at this level making your debut, as anyone could ask for.

He's already secured the bag and his future. Poor performance won’t take that away.

The offensive bar for him to meet couldn’t possibly have been set any lower.

You could easily argue that it’s just as beneficial for his development to start learning his craft against big league pitching.

[liveforoctober]

IMHO Jett has the keys to this conversation. I would be a little surprised if they brought Pratt up anywhere near the big leagues until he settles in at AAA. Jett only needs a few good weeks of offensive production to be ready.

When Chourio comes back we won't be doing as much of the matchup stuff with opposing pitchers in the outfield ... so Chourio will replace Jones in all likelihood and then given Jett's ability to be in the grass he could replace Perkins and we wouldn't be losing the outfield depth.

So as we currently sit I think Jett is the only one who will bump Ortiz from regular at bats in the short/medium term?

[Jopal78]

35 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I actually think this is about as low pressure of an environment, at least as much as that can be at this level making your debut, as anyone could ask for.

He's already secured the bag and his future. Poor performance won’t take that away.

The offensive bar for him to meet couldn’t possibly have been set any lower.

You could easily argue that it’s just as beneficial for his development to start learning his craft against big league pitching.

No. It’s not like the Brewers are tanking where losing is tolerated as part of the bigger picture. They’re trying to win as many as possible. They’re not going to call up Pratt to be overmatched at the major league level just for the sake of making a change at SS. They’ll call him up when they believe the totality of his game is superior to what Ortiz offers. It could happen this year, but early indications are Pratt is going to need significant playing time to develop against advanced minor league pitching let alone major league pitching. 

[SeaBass]

Since April 17, when Ortiz entered the game as a pinch runner and defensive replacement in the 10th inning, he only has 3 games where he's gotten 4 plate appearances. They're already mitigating his playing time.

[BruisedCrew]

Ortiz has undeniably been terrible at the plate. But, having him at number 9 in the order might be more acceptable if there weren’t so many other holes in the batting order. 
 

I’m less upset about Ortiz than I am that the Brewers did nothing to fill holes at 3B and the outfield corners, which are usually manned by more productive hitters who can provide some power. 

[BruisedCrew]

10 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Since April 17, when Ortiz entered the game as a pinch runner and defensive replacement in the 10th inning, he only has 3 games where he's gotten 4 plate appearances. They're already mitigating his playing time.

Part of that reflects my comment about other holes in the batting order.. The Brewers haven’t been getting enough base runners to turn the order around more than 3 times. 

[adambr2]

54 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

No. It’s not like the Brewers are tanking where losing is tolerated as part of the bigger picture. They’re trying to win as many as possible. They’re not going to call up Pratt to be overmatched at the major league level just for the sake of making a change at SS. They’ll call him up when they believe the totality of his game is superior to what Ortiz offers. It could happen this year, but early indications are Pratt is going to need significant playing time to develop against advanced minor league pitching let alone major league pitching. 

I really don’t think a .445 OPS and 0 extra basehits is helping us win games now.

As SeaBass mentioned, he’s already been semi-benched.