Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[Matt Breen]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

Surprising considering he wasn't on the injury report yesterday at all.

Methinks they need to invest heavily in DB in the upcoming draft.

Yeah, I'm guessing they will. Sad considering the resources we have put into the secondary for the past 5-6 years:

Eric Stokes (#29) - 2021
Darnell Savage (#21) - 2019
Jaire Alexander (#18) - 2018
Josh Jackson (#45) - 2018
Kevin King (#33) - 2017
Josh Jones (#61) - 2017

[yourout]

27 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

Yeah, I'm guessing they will. Sad considering the resources we have put into the secondary for the past 5-6 years:

Eric Stokes (#29) - 2021
Darnell Savage (#21) - 2019
Jaire Alexander (#18) - 2018
Josh Jackson (#45) - 2018
Kevin King (#33) - 2017
Josh Jones (#61) - 2017

Yeah thats a pretty poor bating average.

And a pretty high whiff rate.

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Stokes is ruled out for tomorrow. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing him go either. He wasn't that impressive when he was healthy.

Stokes graded the best in Press-Man coverage as a rookie. He was exceptional, particularly for a rookie.

He wasn't nearly as good last year, then got hurt and it was a bad injury. And now this year has been a lost year.

I don't see any reason to let him go at this point...but I also can't envision them picking up his option. That one seems like an easy call. Gives him another year to rehab and get on the field. 

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Surprising considering he wasn't on the injury report yesterday at all.

Methinks they need to invest heavily in DB in the upcoming draft.

It's a little disconcerting...it'd suggest he just pulled it again in camp. Watson is going to work with some specialists on strengthening his back in hopes it'll help him with Hamstrings. 

I don't know how heavily they need to invest in CB, but they need to invest in DBs. With the salary cap clearing up, I mentioned Budda Baker in another thread, but Antoine Winfield would be another really good fit. A safety who's tough, good in coverage...and then you invest in a safety like Hicks(WSU) or Williams(Miami) later on. More of a SS type. 

They definitely found something in Valentine and I'd hope that a new DC can get the most out of Jaire. I like him, think he's a good dude, he's competitive. Just has to get his head right. 

[thebruce44]

4 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

They definitely found something in Valentine and I'd hope that a new DC can get the most out of Jaire. I like him, think he's a good dude, he's competitive. Just has to get his head right. 

These last few weeks have been really difficult to watch. Its been like a train crash you could see happening from miles out.

I'm not going to defend Jaire, but even at his most ridiculousness, he wasn't passing blame, just being stupid. He's what you interview draft picks for, accountability. He said he could have played better, amongst a bunch of other stupid things.

LaFleur is a "young" coach, but he's also 44, old enough to know how a successful organization works. I'm starting to wonder more and more about the overall structure of the organization, and the fact that we have to speculate is a problem considering many of us own stock in the team.

[nate82]

36 minutes ago, thebruce44 said:

own stock in the team.

LOL yes you own stock in the team but that is about it.  Heck the board of directors could disregard your vote and there would be no penalty for them doing so and also nothing you can do about it as it is not guaranteed or protected by anything other than the Packers word.  You bought a novelty item nothing more nothing less. 

[GAME05]

I read not long ago that the Packers as is would only be $6M below the cap next year. Does waiving Bachtiari really clear up that much cap space for rookies and then signing a big name FA like Buddha Baker? I have this feeling based on not much that Kenny Clark will be waived next year.

[HarveysWBs]

18 hours ago, nate82 said:

LOL yes you own stock in the team but that is about it.  Heck the board of directors could disregard your vote and there would be no penalty for them doing so and also nothing you can do about it as it is not guaranteed or protected by anything other than the Packers word.  You bought a novelty item nothing more nothing less. 

I know this is a difficult concept for other fanbases to wrap their heads around, but:

1) There are many ways to create a corporation.  The cutthroat, profit-driven, shareholder value over everything model typical to most well-known corporations is not the only way.  The Packers are quite open and honest about exactly what their stock is.  The lack of appreciating value, limited voting rights, and possibility of stock buy-backs are all clearly stated and not a scam in any way.  

2) Nevertheless, the stock is quite real and legally binding (hence, not “memorabilia”) in several important respects, not least of which being that it necessitates financial disclosures that no other franchise in the NFL is subject to.  This transparency is of huge value to the fans, as it offers unique insights into how money is accumulated, shared, and utilized, with both direct application to Green Bay, but also the league as a whole by extrapolation.  You can bet your bottom dollar that the league would pay unholy sums of money to make the Packers organizational structure go away and never replicated anywhere else in the league so they could maintain far more secrecy in the way finances are utilized.  (By maintaining the oft-repeated misconception that the stock is meaningless, you are in fact participating in the NFL’s greedy propaganda campaign—billionaires everywhere thank you).

3) Even if the above points were untrue, the stock sales would be valuable for making it less necessary for the franchise to go to the taxpayers with hat in hand.  The Packers have leveraged public financing far less often than their league peers for this reason, and this fact should be championed by any advocate of responsible government.

4) Finally, by tying themselves corporately to a fan base, the organization is not at the whim of a billionaire owner or group, and thus must act in the interests of the community and long-term stability of the organization to a larger degree than any other franchise, certainly in the NFL, and possibly more than any other team in professional sports.  No, it does not eliminate greed and craven decision making entirely, but it does, for instance, make it all but unthinkable to uproot the team from Green Bay, and that alone is worth the sticker price to me.  Enjoy Arlington.

[LouisEly]

2 hours ago, GAME05 said:

I read not long ago that the Packers as is would only be $6M below the cap next year. Does waiving Bachtiari really clear up that much cap space for rookies and then signing a big name FA like Buddha Baker? I have this feeling based on not much that Kenny Clark will be waived next year.

Right now the Packers are at ~$233M in allocated cap for 2024 with a projected salary cap of ~$242M.  Bakhtiari release would clear $21M of cap space.  Releasing Clark wouldn't do anything because of the void years on his contract pulling those years forward, resulting in a net savings of only $3M. 

Bakh is the only significant cap saver from a release standpoint; a Clark extension could create space.  Releasing Campbell would only save ~$2.7M, releasing Preston Smith would only save ~$2.5M, and trading Alexander prior to 6/1 would result in a negative cap hit of ~$3M.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/yearly/cap/

[HarryDoyle]

Next week's game is a 3:25 start.

[BrewerFan]

15 hours ago, GAME05 said:

I read not long ago that the Packers as is would only be $6M below the cap next year. Does waiving Bachtiari really clear up that much cap space for rookies and then signing a big name FA like Buddha Baker? I have this feeling based on not much that Kenny Clark will be waived next year.

Clark is having a great year. He's not going anywhere. He's more likely to get a 2-3 year extension. But if not, he's got 13M in dead cap in '25.

But I think Jones will take a ~5M cut on his base salary which is...IIRC around 11M.
Campbell and Preston Smith will likely be cut/traded.
 

We'd still have ~43M in cap space IF the cap only goes up the minimum amount. You still have to set aside quite a bit of money in there for the regular season, for draft picks, other smaller signings, but when you look at the cap after that, you've got ~35M from Bakh/Clark that will be off the books the following year when you'd have almost a completely clean cap. That's before you get to Jaire. He could cost you 3M to move off of next year vs the cap, but now you're saving 25M on the '25 cap. I'm skeptical they'd do that unless they got a 1st for him, but who knows how that'll play out. How he responds and plays next week and hopefully the following will help.

Plus, safeties don't get paid in FA like other positions. Bates and Simmons, two of the best safeties and biggest deals got deals in the 4/60M range.

They could get that yr 1 cap hit down to 10M(lower if they wanted).  I think they could pretty easily sign a guy like Baker/Winfield and their future cap situation would be really healthy at this point.

Should be kept in mind, Love will probably get an extension in the off-season, but still, plenty of room if they wanted to make a big FA signing...or two. I still really like Connor Williams from Miami as a Center. Great fit, nice upgrade(though Myers has been playing much better).

 

[adambr2]

Not that much else besides beating the Bears matters much but the 6 seed is still in play if the Rams lose, which obviously matters matchup wise.

[CheezWizHed]

Week 17: The Packers beat the Vikings and thus eliminated the Bears from the playoffs.

Week 18: If the Packers beat the Bears, the Vikings will be eliminated from the playoffs. 

Week 19: If the 49ers beat the Rams in Week 18, the Packers would play the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Thus giving them the chance to eliminate the Bears, Vikings, and Lions in back-to-back-to-back weeks.

Now you know how to cheer this week. 😉

[homer]

Dez Bryant should be a scout (still wasn't a catch though)

 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

17 minutes ago, homer said:

Dez Bryant should be a scout (still wasn't a catch though)

 

 

Dez was high on Doubs early last season, too.

 

[OldHeidelberg]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:05 AM, adambr2 said:

Not that much else besides beating the Bears matters much but the 6 seed is still in play if the Rams lose, which obviously matters matchup wise.

Yes, the Bears are far from a gimme, their defense is playing well and Fields and Moore could create problems for us. But if we do look ahead I guess I like playing the Lions over the Cowboys. Of course getting a shot at knocking Dallas and MM out is appealing too, especially since we don't really have high hopes of going very far anyway.

[homer]

Watson is back at practice.

 

 

[homer]

If you took Jordan Love's numbers from the Pittsburgh game forward and extrapolated that out to a 17-game season you'd get:

38 TD passes

6 INTs

66.2%

4511 yards passing

104.6 passer rating

(I won't extrapolate out from the Chargers game forward because it's too ridiculously good)

[CheezWizHed]

15 hours ago, homer said:

If you took Jordan Love's numbers from the Pittsburgh game forward and extrapolated that out to a 17-game season you'd get:

38 TD passes

6 INTs

66.2%

4511 yards passing

104.6 passer rating

(I won't extrapolate out from the Chargers game forward because it's too ridiculously good)

Yes, his second half has been amazing. All my friends that are Viking or Bears are furious... 😂

I also saw Jaire's press interview responses today.  Good stuff.  Communication wasn't good between he and MLF.  The suspension pushed the issue, forcing them to work on it (hopefully resolving it).  Glad to see him not doubling down against it. 

Now hopefully he can shake off the rust... he didn't look so hot when we returned a couple weeks ago. 

[OldHeidelberg]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Yes, his second half has been amazing. All my friends that are Viking or Bears are furious... 😂

I also saw Jaire's press interview responses today.  Good stuff.  Communication wasn't good between he and MLF.  The suspension pushed the issue, forcing them to work on it (hopefully resolving it).  Glad to see him not doubling down against it. 

Now hopefully he can shake off the rust... he didn't look so hot when we returned a couple weeks ago. 

I am more worried about the rust on Walker, it took a month after his last hammy to start to make an impact but Love threw to him a lot anyway. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

26 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

I am more worried about the rust on Walker, it took a month after his last hammy to start to make an impact but Love threw to him a lot anyway. 

You mean Watson, I presume?  I just want to see him back in a game situation - him on the field with the rest of the young receivers really spaces out the field, and a healthy him paired with Reed in the slot and the rest of the WRs/TEs is a handful if Love is distributing the ball to all of them.

Love seemingly has been really good against teams dialing up blitzes to try and generate pressure, because the receivers have more open space to run to.  Where Love still needs development is against defenses that can generate decent pressure rushing 4 and dropping into coverage - alot of those downfield jump throws leading receivers into wide open spaces won't be there and typically will have defenders closing from the back end instead of chasing in man coverage.  Thinking of that Giants game that Love played poorly in for most of that contest.  The offense's surge has been tied to improved Oline play (no surprises there) - if that keeps up I'm looking forward to an entertaining playoff game for a team I have no expectations on making run with nothing to lose.

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Yes, his second half has been amazing. All my friends that are Viking or Bears are furious... 😂

I also saw Jaire's press interview responses today.  Good stuff.  Communication wasn't good between he and MLF.  The suspension pushed the issue, forcing them to work on it (hopefully resolving it).  Glad to see him not doubling down against it. 

Now hopefully he can shake off the rust... he didn't look so hot when we returned a couple weeks ago. 

Viking fans are beside themselves...it's like "do we throw $35+ million to Cousins and hope he's the same player a couple more years after blowing out his achilles mid-season, knowing we're already going to be hardpressed to extend Jefferson/Darrisaw and retain Hunter?"  Or do we trade who we can and go full rebuild mode knowing the defensive personnel are thin and aging at key spots, give Jefferson a market-setting WR contract extension while having no longterm QB in the organization and hope the GM actually makes a good pick early in the draft?  Then they turn around and see Love shredding them and mutter "of course" to themselves....it's glorious!

[homer]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Viking fans are beside themselves...it's like "do we throw $35+ million to Cousins and hope he's the same player a couple more years after blowing out his achilles mid-season, knowing we're already going to be hardpressed to extend Jefferson/Darrisaw and retain Hunter?"  Or do we trade who we can and go full rebuild mode knowing the defensive personnel are thin and aging at key spots, give Jefferson a market-setting WR contract extension while having no longterm QB in the organization and hope the GM actually makes a good pick early in the draft?  Then they turn around and see Love shredding them and mutter "of course" to themselves....it's glorious!

I'm a little worried Penix drops to them in the draft. I really like him and I don't want to hate him.

[OldHeidelberg]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

You mean Watson, I presume? 

Yes, sorry I can't keep their names straight for some reason, it didn't help we had a Watkins last year too. 🙂

[wallus]

It'll be nice not having to spend money or capital on the WR room unless they find a great value. Jayden Reed is a stud and Watson will be fine if he can get the hammy thing figured out. (I bet he will)

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

It'll be nice not having to spend money or capital on the WR room unless they find a great value. Jayden Reed is a stud and Watson will be fine if he can get the hammy thing figured out. (I bet he will)

I think it'd be a good idea if another burner falls to you in the 2nd/3rd. It's just such a night and day difference when Watson is on the field vs when he's not. 

All these mock drafts have wildly different rankings, but a guy like Franklin from Oregon would be a great fit. I wouldn't force it, but if he is there at 52 or wherever we pick 2nd in the 2nd rd, might be an idea. 

But it's certainly not a priority and this young group is really exciting. Just wish Toure was the guy they seemed to claim he was.