2022 Trade Market

[brewmann04]

Maybe David getting ready for his gig with the mets ? but it is quiet on that front but he is very tight lipped.

[phnxcrew]

On 6/13/2022 at 6:54 PM, brewmann04 said:

Maybe David getting ready for his gig with the mets ? but it is quiet on that front but he is very tight lipped.

Pretty sure woodruff, burnes and hader will be on the way to the Mets for a PTBNL ?

[jay87shot]

There was an article in the athletic (sorry no link) where Stearns did an interview that said any major offense improvements are going to have to come from in house options. 

Basically that means we have no budget room from Attenasio and the organization isn't very open to trading prospects.

It could also mean that the team intends on bring a prospect or 2 up eventually. Maybe we trade Wong and bring up Turang and give Weimer a chance at CF.

Thoughts?

[jay87shot]

Wong to White Sox for Kyle Crick and a prospect.

Severino for AAA OF prospect..

Maybe Michael A. Taylor for a lesser prospect or 2.

 

 

[Jopal78]

20 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

There was an article in the athletic (sorry no link) where Stearns did an interview that said any major offense improvements are going to have to come from in house options. 

Basically that means we have no budget room from Attenasio and the organization isn't very open to trading prospects.

It could also mean that the team intends on bring a prospect or 2 up eventually. Maybe we trade Wong and bring up Turang and give Weimer a chance at CF.

Thoughts?

I don't know, it probably means they aren't going to be making an earth shaking move to bolster the offense. In fact, if you look at the team's recent history they've never really added the marquee player anyways. In prior deadlines they've added more supplemental rental players:  Moustakas, Schoop, Granderson, Drew Pomeranz, Eduardo Escobar. If they stay on the pace I would expect more of the same. 

I get the prospect love, but there really is no reason to trade Kolten Wong. Besides, Turang has a .680 OPS at AAA. Unless he really improves his offense he will get eaten alive by pitching at the major league level. Maybe Weimer forces his way on to the roster later this summer (like Grisham in 2019) but I wouldn't count on it. 

Finally nobody, is going to trade for Severino. He's ineligible for the post-season and there's even odds he'll be non-tendered after the season. 

[nate82]

30 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don't know, it probably means they aren't going to be making an earth shaking move to bolster the offense. In fact, if you look at the team's recent history they've never really added the marquee player anyways. In prior deadlines they've added more supplemental rental players:  Moustakas, Schoop, Granderson, Drew Pomeranz, Eduardo Escobar. If they stay on the pace I would expect more of the same. 

I get the prospect love, but there really is no reason to trade Kolten Wong. Besides, Turang has a .680 OPS at AAA. Unless he really improves his offense he will get eaten alive by pitching at the major league level. Maybe Weimer forces his way on to the roster later this summer (like Grisham in 2019) but I wouldn't count on it. 

Finally nobody, is going to trade for Severino. He's ineligible for the post-season and there's even odds he'll be non-tendered after the season. 

The Brewers were also heavily involved with Machado just that the Orioles didn't like the prospects the Brewers had for a Machado trade compared to what the Dodgers offered.  

Turang will be fine in MLB as he will be hitting towards the bottom of the order having a sub .700 OPS batting 8th or 9th is perfectly fine in MLB.  Turang should also be able to provide defense as good as Wong has provided for the Brewers.  

Severino is an interesting trade piece.  There are a few teams that could benefit from him at catcher like the White Sox and Giants.  Yes he won't be playoff eligible but both the White Sox and Giants are not getting much if anything from their current catchers.  The Giants currently have Bart hitting .156/.296/.300 and Casali at .237/.318/.398 and the White Sox have McGuire at .239/.286/.303 and Grandal at .185/.294/.237.  

Maybe a team doesn't trade for him but there are definitely teams out there that would trade for him to be the backup catcher on their team even if it means he doesn't play for them in the playoffs.  If a team believes he can help them in the regular season to make the playoffs they will make the trade.  He won't bring much back in a trade but that would have been true even if he wasn't suspended from the playoffs.  At best you are looking at a AAAA player or an extreme lottery ticket.  Teams don't just make trades for players that they believe will be on their playoff roster and they do make trades for players who they think will help them make the playoffs and will not be on the playoff roster.    

Probably an impossible trade but Severino would be the best catcher offensively on the Cardinals right now.  The two main Cardinals catchers are hitting: .196/.295/.262 and .213/.225/.294.  Also the only major catcher available looks to be Wilson Contreras and I doubt the Cubs trade him to the Cardinals.  

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, jay87shot said:

There was an article in the athletic (sorry no link) where Stearns did an interview that said any major offense improvements are going to have to come from in house options. 

Basically that means we have no budget room from Attenasio and the organization isn't very open to trading prospects.

It could also mean that the team intends on bring a prospect or 2 up eventually. Maybe we trade Wong and bring up Turang and give Weimer a chance at CF.

Thoughts?

Without seeing the actual quote, I would imagine Stearns was talking about in the near term.

I would put the odds of them trading for zero hitters before the deadline at about one percent.

Guess it also depends on what qualifies as a “major” improvement. I’d say getting Adames/Renfroe back off the DL & cutting the guy with a 32 OPS+ should be an improvement to some degree or another.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

The Brewers were also heavily involved with Machado just that the Orioles didn't like the prospects the Brewers had for a Machado trade compared to what the Dodgers offered.  

Turang will be fine in MLB as he will be hitting towards the bottom of the order having a sub .700 OPS batting 8th or 9th is perfectly fine in MLB.  Turang should also be able to provide defense as good as Wong has provided for the Brewers.  

Severino is an interesting trade piece.  There are a few teams that could benefit from him at catcher like the White Sox and Giants.  Yes he won't be playoff eligible but both the White Sox and Giants are not getting much if anything from their current catchers.  The Giants currently have Bart hitting .156/.296/.300 and Casali at .237/.318/.398 and the White Sox have McGuire at .239/.286/.303 and Grandal at .185/.294/.237.  

Maybe a team doesn't trade for him but there are definitely teams out there that would trade for him to be the backup catcher on their team even if it means he doesn't play for them in the playoffs.  If a team believes he can help them in the regular season to make the playoffs they will make the trade.  He won't bring much back in a trade but that would have been true even if he wasn't suspended from the playoffs.  At best you are looking at a AAAA player or an extreme lottery ticket.  Teams don't just make trades for players that they believe will be on their playoff roster and they do make trades for players who they think will help them make the playoffs and will not be on the playoff roster.    

Probably an impossible trade but Severino would be the best catcher offensively on the Cardinals right now.  The two main Cardinals catchers are hitting: .196/.295/.262 and .213/.225/.294.  Also the only major catcher available looks to be Wilson Contreras and I doubt the Cubs trade him to the Cardinals.  

No, there is no point to promote Turang from AAA at 22 years old and with a .680 OPS. It wouldn't improve the Brewers in the short run, nor would it improve them in the long run. Sure, some teams can carry a player with a sub .700 OPS when the middle of their order is a bunch of monsters. That is not the '22 Brewers who need every bit of hitting they can get. 

As for Severino, the price of back up catchers is nil. The Brewers got Caratini (and cash) for Korry Howell (who the Padres already cut loose) and Brett Sullivan (a 28 year old back up catcher yet to play in the majors). Sure they could trade Severino but it most likely would be for cash or future considerations; and the reality is if Milwaukee decides to move on when he is eligible to play, they'd probably just release him. 

[Jopal78]

59 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Without seeing the actual quote, I would imagine Stearns was talking about in the near term.

I would put the odds of them trading for zero hitters before the deadline at about one percent.

Guess it also depends on what qualifies as a “major” improvement. I’d say getting Adames/Renfroe back off the DL & cutting the guy with a 32 OPS+ should be an improvement to some degree or another.

Not to quibble because I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but Renfroe is already surpassing his career slash line. I don't know how much "more" there potentially is to be expected from him. Cain hadn't been playing much this month anyways, so unless Mickey Mantle rises from the dead and steps in to soaks up the 10-12 at bats per week Cain was getting, its likely irrelevant.

[LouisEly]

2 hours ago, jay87shot said:

Wong to White Sox for Kyle Crick and a prospect.

Severino for AAA OF prospect..

Maybe Michael A. Taylor for a lesser prospect or 2.

 

I think you're on the right track with the right team and the right player.  The White Sox could really use Severino with Grandal on the IL (and hitting poorly) and their backup catcher hitting poorly.  The White Sox also have a glut of OF; a guy who could help this year and not add much payroll is Adam Haseley who is buried behind Robert, Pollock, and Engel. 

Haseley was the 8th overall pick of the 2017 draft, but for some reason the Phillies traded him to the White Sox for the hard but not necessarily strike throwing McKinley Moore, who slots in at #28 on MLB.com's Phillies top 30 prospects.  Haseley could help this year in the OF and will have one option left after the season.

Wonder what the Brewers would have to add to Severino to get Haseley from the White Sox.   Shouldn't be much if Moore barely is cracking the top 30 for the Phillies.  Joe Gray?  Zavier Warren?  Mario Feliciano?

The Brewers started Severino's rehab assignment two weeks before he was eligible to be reinstated.  I'm wondering if that's because they're getting inquiries and want him to be ready to be activated the day he is eligible.

[LouisEly]

24 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

The Brewers got Caratini (and cash) for Korry Howell (who the Padres already cut loose)

The Padres have not cut loose Howell - he is on the Missions roster.

[nate82]

53 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

No, there is no point to promote Turang from AAA at 22 years old and with a .680 OPS. It wouldn't improve the Brewers in the short run, nor would it improve them in the long run. Sure, some teams can carry a player with a sub .700 OPS when the middle of their order is a bunch of monsters. That is not the '22 Brewers who need every bit of hitting they can get. 

As for Severino, the price of back up catchers is nil. The Brewers got Caratini (and cash) for Korry Howell (who the Padres already cut loose) and Brett Sullivan (a 28 year old back up catcher yet to play in the majors). Sure they could trade Severino but it most likely would be for cash or future considerations; and the reality is if Milwaukee decides to move on when he is eligible to play, they'd probably just release him. 

The discussion wasn't about promoting Turang this year it was about 2023.  Not sure why you are never ever able to follow a thread it is like you read one word and that is it.  

[Jopal78]

23 minutes ago, nate82 said:

The discussion wasn't about promoting Turang this year it was about 2023.  Not sure why you are never ever able to follow a thread it is like you read one word and that is it.  

I don't know homie, there was someone who posted just three hours ago, about trading Wong and promoting Turang. Kinda sounds like 2022, but whatever if attacks make you feel like a real man, go for it. 

[nate82]

I still believe Mancini is probably the perfect target for the Brewers.  He doesn't strike out all that much and gets on base at a good rate.  He doesn't provide much power but it is enough and would be a good platoon partner with McCutchen at DH and could replace Tellez against lefties when Tellez needs a day off.  

The perfect trade would be for Bell as he fixes the DH spot against RHP and would fit in a platoon perfectly with McCutchen.  Another option would be Cooper but I am not sure if the Marlins would part with him or not.  He would also be a good platoon partner with McCutchen at DH.  

Benintendi is also another target but I am not sure where he would fit on the team.  

 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

I still believe Mancini is probably the perfect target for the Brewers.  He doesn't strike out all that much and gets on base at a good rate.  He doesn't provide much power but it is enough and would be a good platoon partner with McCutchen at DH and could replace Tellez against lefties when Tellez needs a day off.  

The perfect trade would be for Bell as he fixes the DH spot against RHP and would fit in a platoon perfectly with McCutchen.  Another option would be Cooper but I am not sure if the Marlins would part with him or not.  He would also be a good platoon partner with McCutchen at DH.  

Benintendi is also another target but I am not sure where he would fit on the team.  

 

For what it's worth Mancini's career OBP is .335, McCutchen's post Pirates OBP ('18-'22) is .353, he's not a difference making bat for an offensively challenged team, but then again you may be right because he's the acquisition cost for a middling hitter on an expiring contract won't be much. 

I wouldn't anticipate the Brewers acquiring Josh Bell, he's having a huge year and every contender in both leagues can use an .850 OPS bat. 

As for Cooper, he's got a year of team control remaining. If he's the real deal (jury's out on that), the Marlins have no reason to trade a 119 OPS+/.812 OPS hitter unless blown away by an offer. 

The more I think about it, Benintendi sounds like the type of player the Brewers would acquire. Regarded as a good defender, I can almost envision them acquiring him, plugging him into LF every day, moving Yelich to DH and claiming they've improved their outfield defense and fixed the DH spot in one move.  

[nate82]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

For what it's worth Mancini's career OBP is .335, McCutchen's post Pirates OBP ('18-'22) is .353, he's not a difference making bat for an offensively challenged team, but then again you may be right because he's the acquisition cost for a middling hitter on an expiring contract won't be much. 

I wouldn't anticipate the Brewers acquiring Josh Bell, he's having a huge year and every contender in both leagues can use an .850 OPS bat. 

As for Cooper, he's got a year of team control remaining. If he's the real deal (jury's out on that), the Marlins have no reason to trade a 119 OPS+/.812 OPS hitter unless blown away by an offer. 

The more I think about it, Benintendi sounds like the type of player the Brewers would acquire. Regarded as a good defender, I can almost envision them acquiring him, plugging him into LF every day, moving Yelich to DH and claiming they've improved their outfield defense and fixed the DH spot in one move.  

I think Mancini is closer to a .360 OBP player than what his career line suggests.  This is only his 2nd year back and he is currently at a .363 OBP, which ranks about 30th in all of MLB.  The Brewers need more players who can get on base not really power.  

I think you are over estimating Bell's value and what teams will be looking for.  I don't see a vast market for Bell where it is going to create a huge bidding war.  He is an upcoming free agent and recent trade deadlines have shown these players do not bring back all that much.  The Cubs only got Kilian and Canario for Bryant last year.  That is not a big haul for someone like Bryant who is a better player than Bell is.  Bell is only going to bring back a teams 15-20th ranked prospect in their system.  Bell, Benintendi and Mancini are basically the same players value wise on the trade market.  

[Jopal78]

58 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I think Mancini is closer to a .360 OBP player than what his career line suggests.  This is only his 2nd year back and he is currently at a .363 OBP, which ranks about 30th in all of MLB.  The Brewers need more players who can get on base not really power.  

I think you are over estimating Bell's value and what teams will be looking for.  I don't see a vast market for Bell where it is going to create a huge bidding war.  He is an upcoming free agent and recent trade deadlines have shown these players do not bring back all that much.  The Cubs only got Kilian and Canario for Bryant last year.  That is not a big haul for someone like Bryant who is a better player than Bell is.  Bell is only going to bring back a teams 15-20th ranked prospect in their system.  Bell, Benintendi and Mancini are basically the same players value wise on the trade market.  

I agree with you rental players don't bring back the caliber of talent at the deadline they did 20 years ago; BUT you're kind of denigrating Bell and he's been nothing short of terrific for the Nationals (.294/.377/.472 and an OPS+ of 145). He's 10th in the NL in Hits and OBP; he's 6th in the NL Adjusted OPS+.  He's a better player this year than Benintendi and Mancini and its not even  debatable, and since his contract is expiring, the Nationals are certain to trade him.

Like I said earlier, every contending team in both leagues will have some degree of interest in adding a hitter with an .850 OPS who already has been worth 2 WAR. Contrary to your statement, the market will most likely be vast and Washington will do well in selling him off. 

Bell would be a difference maker for Milwaukee, Mancini and Benintendi not so much. Moreover, they need offense period, whether it is guys getting on base or more balls going over the fence. 

[brooks_quichenick]

I don't think it's fair to say that Mancini wouldn't be a difference maker for Milwaukee. He'd come in and pretty much be the best hitter in our lineup. 124 wRC+ so far, and while he's currently slugging only .413, his xSLG is .555. I think he's really been hampered by the O's moving the LF wall so far back at Camden Yards. He'd certainly have some increased HR numbers at Miller Park. He'd also provide a big boost against LHP, which this team sorely needs.

[Eye Black]

In this article Jim Bowden lists the Brewers as a match for 10 of the 12 position players mentioned including…

Bryan Reynolds, Josh Bell, Trey Mancini, Andrew Benintendi, Anthony Santander, Ramón Laureano, Whit Merrifield, Mitch Haniger, Nelson Cruz, Adam Frazier

 

[jay87shot]

What about Nelson Cruz, he would likely cost nothing and the Nats would probably eat most of his salary. Cruz has been hitting a bit better as of late and would fit in fine. I still like Cedric Mullins a lot but I would guess the O's asking price would be to high. 

Would 1/2 year of Omar Narvaez get us anything useful? Caratini has been just as good and we have crazy good catcher depth with Feliciano, Reetz, Severino, and Alex Jackson. I feel like we should almost trade 2 of those guys just to improve younger depth in the infield.

[nate82]

35 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

What about Nelson Cruz, he would likely cost nothing and the Nats would probably eat most of his salary. Cruz has been hitting a bit better as of late and would fit in fine. I still like Cedric Mullins a lot but I would guess the O's asking price would be to high. 

Would 1/2 year of Omar Narvaez get us anything useful? Caratini has been just as good and we have crazy good catcher depth with Feliciano, Reetz, Severino, and Alex Jackson. I feel like we should almost trade 2 of those guys just to improve younger depth in the infield.

Unlikely on Narvaez and I really wouldn't want to subtract from the Brewers current catching core.  Right now the best catcher on the trade market is Wilson Contreras and he is going to get the most attention in the trade market.  Plus if the Brewers traded Narvaez it would be to a contending team probably the Giants who the Brewers would be competing with either for a Wild Card spot or in the playoffs.  

As for Cruz I don't think he is someone that would be a fit for the Brewers as he wouldn't really have a spot to play.  I would prefer Mancini or Bell as they would be perfect platoons with McCutchen against RHP and both could play 1B in case Tellez needs a day off against a tough lefty.  

[Lathund]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:46 PM, nate82 said:

Benintendi is also another target but I am not sure where he would fit on the team.  

 

I think that what decides whether Benintendi is in play as an option for the Brewers or not is how the front office view his ability to play CF. Not every day, but some sort of platoon with Taylor, as well as giving Yelich more DH time and have Benintendi play LF on those days. But even if it's only a couple of starts per week, Brewers still value CF defense highly so he needs to at least  be competent there. He only has 500-odd innings there between 2016-2019, which is nowhere near enough for the publicly available data to tell us anything, so hard to know how the Brewers view it. 

Anyway, I don't know if it'll be Benintendi; I expect they'll generally go for smaller/cheaper than that. But I don't think that the bat  added will be another 1B/DH only, at least that won't be their preference. But we know how value-focused the FO is though; they might not want a 1B/DH, but if they can get a good hitting 1B/DH for a lot less than they think he's worth, that's what they'll do. 

As for Narvaez trade as discussed above; Only way I see it happening is if the Brewers are way out of it at the deadline. Which they won't be. I'm also optimistic about the catcher depth, but I don't much of a benefit to an in-season swap. It makes us worse right now, and catchers in particular aren't as "plug in and play" as other positions. And while catcher who can contribute on offense and defense is valuable, the return for an Omar Narvaez rental won't be all that much still. I think he'll see out his contract, enter free agency, and Brewers will move on unless he's willing to sign for a lot under market value. 

[Jopal78]

If the Pirates are going to move him, the Brewers should just trade for Bryan Reynolds and be done with it. Helps them this year and gives them a plus offensive player who is cost controlled for 2023. By then, the Brewers will be retooling their roster as their pitchers get closer to free agency. 

Meanwhile, the Pirates have a strong collection of talent in the minor leagues who are still a couple seasons away from being ready. A rare situation where one division rival's window will not coincide with the window of the team they're trading with. 

The question is if the Brewers would be willing to deal some top minor league players like Valerio, Weimer, Frelick etc. 

[wallus]

Yep, the Brewers should kick the tires on Reynolds again. Something like Frelick, Small and Turang should be close imo.

[nate82]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

Yep, the Brewers should kick the tires on Reynolds again. Something like Frelick, Small and Turang should be close imo.

I don't believe the Pirates would accept that.  The Brewers will have to pay a premium to get Reynolds being in the same division as the Pirates.  It is stupid but that is how teams work only way to change this is to somehow get the GM that gave up Aramis Ramirez for nothing to the Cubs.  

I think two of Wiemer, Frelick, Valerio, Turang or Black and one of Hedbert Perez, Gray, Mendez or Small along with a lottery ticket is closer to what the Pirates will be looking for.  It is going to cost a ton to get Reynolds.