Bo Naylor, Codi Heuer to Crew for Perkins, Yoho

[brooks_quichenick]

According to Will Sammon, Quero is battling some biceps soreness which is why he's been DHing. Brewers hoping he can resume catching around 8/15.

[adambr2]

17 minutes ago, TURBO said:

The Brewers are not looking to trade Gary Sánchez, according to The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal and Will Sammon.

The acquisition of Bo Naylor in a trade with the Guardians earlier on Saturday seemed like a potential precursor to a Sánchez trade, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Rosenthal and Sammon add that the Brewers view Naylor as another layer of protection behind starter William Contreras heading toward the postseason. 

- George Bissell

26m ago

Source: The Athletic

Not surprised, I didn’t think this meant anything for Gary. With Quero not being able to catch we just had nothing if something happened to Contreras or Sanchez. 

The contempt for Sanchez is confusing to me. Getting a well above average bat at backup catcher is a rarity around the league, the defense is not spectacular but not a liability. The ABS stuff is annoying but I doubt makes a huge impact in the big scheme of things.

You could do way worse for your #2 catcher. Maybe I am getting old and many people here weren’t around for the Chad Moeller days. 

 

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

16 minutes ago, homer said:

Is ABS a metric people are using to judge catchers?

Potentially.   We are horrifically bad at it.  Specifically, Sanchez is historically awful at it.

Think of a killer jump serve in volleyball.  If you are only able to put it in 30% of the time., it’s not a weapon. It is a huge weakness.

I think 30% is about what Gary gets a right on challenges.  I don’t think that people specifically mind that he challenges., it’s just that he challenges on pointless pitches

If you strike out looking on a 3-2 count with runners on base and two out, it makes sense to challenge

challenging a pitch on a 1-0 count with two outs and nobody on base is worthless

 

[sveumrules]

17 minutes ago, homer said:

Is ABS a metric people are using to judge catchers?

On a team level the range from top to bottom for Catcher Initiated Challenges (behind the plate) is +12.3 runs (MIN) down to +4.4 runs (PIT), a difference of 7.9 runs (not even one Win). The Brewers have been pretty good here at +8.6 runs (6th) with their 166 reviews the 3rd most.

On a team level the range from top to bottom for Hitter Initiated Challenges is +13.5 runs (CIN) down to +6.0 runs (TBR), a difference of 7.5 runs (again not even one Win).  The Brewers 80 reviews are the fewest and their +6.9 runs are 27th.

For a sense of comparative scale, the top to bottom range on a team level for base running is +9.9 BsR (WAS) down to -7.6 BsR (LAA). A much wider range of 17.5 runs top to bottom, but we don't see people obsessing over everybody's BsR numbers.

Definitely some Shiny New Toy Syndrome going on relative to its actual impact on wins and losses. If the players could see the box while standing at the plate (or resting on one knee behind it) like we the viewers can sitting at home I'm sure they'd all be just as good at ABS as we are.

[OldHeidelberg]

40 homers in about 1000 career AB and only 26. Seems worth the flyer to me. Plus, it occurs to me that sending a big prospect package out for Skubal hurts less if they plan on cashing in William in the offseason. This gives them more to work with next season in that scenario. 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Surely we have enough lower value prospects of our own to trade that we don’t need to trade Sanchez to get prospects to flip.

Sanchez’s bat isn’t to shabby. Idk if I’d want to trade him for Naylor’s black hole to be #2 or have Quero get sporadic ABs and probably be a black hole too.

No, I'd rather keep him as well. He's not a great player(obviously) but as a RHed hitter off the bench with some power, he's not bad. 
That, combined with the market as a whole, you're almost certainly getting worse -at that position- if you get rid of Sanchez.

But we'll see. I'm a little skeptical this is going to have a huge impact on any other deals. 

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:

Potentially.   We are horrifically bad at it.  Specifically, Sanchez is historically awful at it.

There are 335 batters with at least 150 PA so far this year.

As a hitter Gary has +1.9 runs which ranks 21st on that leaderboard.

There are 60 catchers with at least 100 PA so far this year.

As a catcher Gary has +2.4 runs which ranks 40th on that leaderboard.

To me that looks like someone who has been well above average as a hitter and slightly below average as a catcher, not someone who has been historically awful.

[homer]

4 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

On a team level the range from top to bottom for Catcher Initiated Challenges (behind the plate) is +12.3 runs (MIN) down to +4.4 runs (PIT), a difference of 7.9 runs (not even one Win). The Brewers have been pretty good here at +8.6 runs (6th) with their 166 reviews the 3rd most.

On a team level the range from top to bottom for Hitter Initiated Challenges is +13.5 runs (CIN) down to +6.0 runs (TBR), a difference of 7.5 runs (again not even one Win).  The Brewers 80 reviews are the fewest and their +6.9 runs are 27th.

For a sense of comparative scale, the top to bottom range on a team level for base running is +9.9 BsR (WAS) down to -7.6 BsR (LAA). A much wider range of 17.5 runs top to bottom, but we don't see people obsessing over everybody's BsR numbers.

Definitely some Shiny New Toy Syndrome going on relative to its actual impact on wins and losses. If the players could see the box while standing at the plate (or resting on one knee behind it) like we the viewers can sitting at home I'm sure they'd all be just as good at ABS as we are.

That's exactly what I was wondering. Thanks. Might be good for a new thread but as it pertains to this one, I wouldn't use it to determine trade value. For one thing, it might be a skill that can be taught/learned. For another, it doesn't appear to have a massive impact on the game.

[BrewerFan]

4 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

On a team level the range from top to bottom for Catcher Initiated Challenges (behind the plate) is +12.3 runs (MIN) down to +4.4 runs (PIT), a difference of 7.9 runs (not even one Win).

That's a stat that... I think can tell you whatever you want it to. 

The way you use these challenges and some of the places they've been used, they can change innings. I don't believe the gap from best to worst isn't worth a run. 

A 1-1 pitch called a ball that you challenge and win completely changes that at bat. That's just one hypothetical, but... these stats are too new and I think lose a bit of value when you throw them together all in one equation. 

 

There have been some challenges that I've thought have changed innings for us. When a pitcher was about to fall behind 2-1 and we won a challenge. 
Also, a lack of challenges by Turang that has been a bit frustrating, but that's another subject. 

That's all though, I don't have a strong opinion on how teams are viewing catchers and their ABS challenging this year because it's too new and catchers need to get into a rhythm or get acclimated, but I think the impact is much bigger than this stat is inferring. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

40 homers in about 1000 career AB and only 26. Seems worth the flyer to me. Plus, it occurs to me that sending a big prospect package out for Skubal hurts less if they plan on cashing in William in the offseason. This gives them more to work with next season in that scenario. 

I get that thought....I just hope next offseason actually happens this winter and not 2029 after a very long break from baseball.

It's because of what I'm assuming is either a nonexistent offseason and perhaps totally missed 2027 season due to CBA strife that I do want the brewers to get very aggressive at this deadline, since it could be their best chance to win a WS.  I'm not saying trade Made or unload their system, but get a couple impact players to give them the best shot this year, knowing the farm is crazy deep right now. 

[endaround]

14 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Not surprised, I didn’t think this meant anything for Gary. With Quero not being able to catch we just had nothing if something happened to Contreras or Sanchez. 

The contempt for Sanchez is confusing to me. Getting a well above average bat at backup catcher is a rarity around the league, the defense is not spectacular but not a liability. The ABS stuff is annoying but I doubt makes a huge impact in the big scheme of things.

You could do way worse for your #2 catcher. Maybe I am getting old and many people here weren’t around for the Chad Moeller days. 

 

People decided Sanchez sucked from prior to the season and just use anything to reinforce that opinion.  He wasn't bad for us in 2024 but people seem to believe he was an anchor on that team too.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

8 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

There are 335 batters with at least 150 PA so far this year.

As a hitter Gary has +1.9 runs which ranks 21st on that leaderboard.

There are 60 catchers with at least 100 PA so far this year.

As a catcher Gary has +2.4 runs which ranks 40th on that leaderboard.

To me that looks like someone who has been well above average as a hitter and slightly below average as a catcher, not someone who has been historically awful.

I meant his challenges are historically awful.  Gary has definitely been above average as a hitter.

and yes, I get the irony of using the word historical when this is the first year of the challenges are allowed

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, homer said:

For another, it doesn't appear to have a massive impact on the game.

Yup.

The league as a whole is at +290.1 runs on batter initiated challenges, or +9.7 runs on average. At a lowly +6.9 runs the Brewers have cost themselves 2.8 runs below average.

The league as a whole is at +213.3 runs on catcher initiated challenges, or +7.1 runs on average. The Brewers at +8.6 runs are 1.5 runs above average.

The grand sum of the Brewers ABS activity this year has cost them about 1.3 runs below average. If they were the very best at challenging as both hitters and catchers they would have gained around 10.3 runs, one whole Win. Some would call such a performance "horrifcially bad", others might call it marginal in the grand scheme of things.

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:

I meant his challenges are historically awful.  Gary has definitely been above average as a hitter.

and yes, I get the irony of using the word historical when this is the first year of the challenges are allowed

Okay I got a kick out of this. Saying Sanchez’s challenges have been historically awful. ABS challenges just started this year. How can something be historically awful when there’s no history?

Edit: I got such a kick out of it that I couldn’t even finish your comment to see you said the same thing later in your comment haha

Edited 2 hours ago by wiguy94

[wiguy94]

We all know the real reason the Brewers made this trade. Perkins has some sort of voodoo where every time he gets sent to AAA an OF gets hurts in the near future to bring him back up. With Lockridge nearing a return off the IL and Perkins about to go back to AAA, the Brewers said nope we aren’t playing this game again.  

[Playing Catch]

If Quero is a questionable 3rd catcher due to his arm, or biceps, then this move makes perfect sense, and as Jopal mentioned above, catchers are expensive.

I immediately thought this was an overpay, but upon reflection, I think it means they need catchers due to injury, performance, or upcoming moves (which could include Quero, Dinges, any catchers). I think Yoho is just enough of an outlier pitcher to make Cleveland giving Naylor up worth while.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the main thing this trade says to me is that if a catcher goes down, we aren't happy with the idea of adding Quero (who hasn't been behind the plate in quite some time) or Darrien Miller. This is a poor mans' version of the Danny Jansen acquisition.

I'll miss Yoho. It looked like he was getting used in a little more important situations. But they'll be adding to the BP in the next few days, and if they don't it appears they're becoming kinda stoked about Cam Wagoner.

EDIT: @Playing Catch, you beat me at the tape lol.

[BrewCrew8675309]

3 hours ago, etranger said:

Smart baseball minds, help me make sense of this one.  Naylor for Yoho.  Heyman reporting it.  

We are sending Quero away in a trade and need more than Darrien Miller/ANava to support GSanchez.   

Yoho was Cleveland's demand. 

We didn't balk because Murphy watched Yoho walk a lot last year. Blake was collateral damage because the 40 man roster and what's coming up next.

Much bigger trade coming up soon.

[adambr2]

6 minutes ago, BrewCrew8675309 said:

We are sending Quero away in a trade and need more than Darrien Miller/ANava to support GSanchez.   

Yoho was Cleveland's demand. 

We didn't balk because Murphy watched Yoho walk a lot last year. Blake was collateral damage because the 40 man roster and what's coming up next.

Much bigger trade coming up soon.

HighHeat19?

[wibadgers23]

Just now, adambr2 said:

HighHeat19?

Oh man, I miss those days (sort of).

[harrydalton]

Insurance at catcher a smart move. Quero's injury is reportedly his bicep, not the shoulder. Hardly a needle mover but I like the trade. I've always liked Cleveland so I hope it works out both ways.

 

[cragi]

Looking at Naylor's numbers and the Brewers history of trying to turn around toolsy guys, i get the appeal for Naylor as a first rounder and still pretty young at catcher with a lot of MLB experience. Naylor has had a brutal BABIP and maybe they can work some Vaughn magic on him.

I could see Yoho turning into a solid arm but not without questions. Perkins needed a change of scenery and it helps our logjam to move up a Ragsdale or Adamczewski.

As for Sanchez, it has nothing to do with the numbers. it's the me-first attitude to ABS that screws his selfless teammates while maxxing his own stats. He uses the ABS as a personal weapon to take away the outer part of the plate, because he cant get to those pitches effectively. 

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Not surprised, I didn’t think this meant anything for Gary. With Quero not being able to catch we just had nothing if something happened to Contreras or Sanchez. 

The contempt for Sanchez is confusing to me. Getting a well above average bat at backup catcher is a rarity around the league, the defense is not spectacular but not a liability. The ABS stuff is annoying but I doubt makes a huge impact in the big scheme of things.

You could do way worse for your #2 catcher. Maybe I am getting old and many people here weren’t around for the Chad Moeller days. 

 

Chad Moeller hit for the cycle on April 27, 2004, playing for the Milwaukee Brewers in a 9-8 win against the Cincinnati Reds at Miller Park. He was the first Brewers player to hit for the cycle at home and the first overall since Paul Molitor in 1991.

[snoogans8056]

We must not think anything of Darrien Miller even though he has over a 1.000 OPS in AAA against RHP (.480 against LHP).

Guy is screaming for a platoon and we get another lefty in Naylor.

[jay87shot]

My 1st impression of the trade was that we didnt get much for Yoho. I am giving Perkins pretty muchly no trade value even though he has been a useful player. Naylor badly needed a change of scenery and has good upside still to at least be a solid platoon catcher. Hauer has a good arsenal and get elite extension so there is something to work with. However this is like his 6th organization so there are some issues.

My biggest worry is that this could indicate a offseason trade of Contreras and lead to a Quero/Naylor duo. If we trade Quero now for a difference maker this trade this trade becomes really good.

I am disappointed we gave up on Yoho but overall I would give this a B, if we trade Quero it becomes like a A-. If it means we trade Contreras in the offseason it is maybe a C+.