Position Changes: Frelick to 3b? Yelich NOT Moving to 1B

[Brewcrew82]

Feel like this merits its own thread so as to spare the board any discussion of this this offseason....

Also, Frelick will get time at 3B again in ST. I still wouldn't expect him to be the everyday 3B man. 

 

[Thurston Fluff]

What's the fascination with moving a sub .700 OPS outfielder who gets most of his value playing defense to a position he never played professionally? 

[Austin Tatious]

I like Frelick. There’s a sparkplug factor.   There’s a fire and competitiveness.  Toughness.  He seems well built with thick legs and a nice, efficient swing without wasted movement.  But he’s got to drive the ball.  He had 2 homers and around 30 rbi and an OPS that’s too low relative to his average.  Those numbers are really anemic for as much as he plays.   It’s not like he was at the top of the order either.  

His body tells me he’s capable of getting extra base hits and tapping into some gap power.  To me, this is crucial for his development.   With his legs, he can develop power to drive the ball and it’s not like his upper body is scrawny.  He was an accomplished football player.

As a third baseman or corner OF, you need a higher OPS especially with Adames’ .800 OPS coming off the books from a traditionally non-run producing position.  We need pop at 3rd to compensate.  I’d love to see him do it but it’s a leap of faith right now.  Something is off with the approach.  

[TURBO]

I want nothing to do with Frelick's bat playing 3B either.  Offense and power are supposed to come from the 3B position, and Frelick doesn't provide that.  Look at most rosters, and you'll see that the 3B position provides a lot more offense than Sal gives us.

Stop with the insanity of him playing 3B.  It just isn't realistic.  Seems like a novelty idea rather than a realistic idea to me.

[Matt]

Third basemen had the third worst OPS (.696) across the majors this season, behind second base (.677) and catcher (.680). 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He's 5'8 and realistically 165. That 185 list makes me chuckle. There are guys who buck those conventional measures but I am never expecting to see a great deal of power out of him.

[Underachiever]

Usually, when you move a guy, it's because his bat is too good to leave out of the lineup, and/or his glove is not good enough for a premium defensive position. Like O'Neil Cruz in Pittsburgh this season.

Not sure what the benefit is in moving Frelick. Flexibility, sure, but he better bring a +glove to the position, since most of his time would probably be in late-innings.

[CheezWizHed]

53 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Usually, when you move a guy, it's because his bat is too good to leave out of the lineup, and/or his glove is not good enough for a premium defensive position. Like O'Neil Cruz in Pittsburgh this season.

Not sure what the benefit is in moving Frelick. Flexibility, sure, but he better bring a +glove to the position, since most of his time would probably be in late-innings.

It's an acknowledgement that we have a lot of good OFers to play and only 3 spots to do it.

But I'd counter your thought on when he plays... I'd suspect he'd play early in the game at 3rd and then be replaced (or move to OF) late in the game for a defensive replacement. I suppose in a blow-out, he might move to third late...

[Matt]

Given the alternatives, I don't mind Sal working on third base this offseason. If he picks it up and takes a moderate leap with the bat, it would solve a significant problem currently facing the roster. 

We just need a stopgap for (hopefully) a year. There's a wave of infielders arriving in '26 and beyond and Sal can go back to the OF or turn into a super utility. 

[LouisEly]

Did people miss the part where McCalvy said, "Doesn't guarantee he'll play a lot there"?

If he takes Monasterio's spot as the backup 3B, then isn't that an offensive upgrade?

[AKCheesehead]

Remember, Frelick's only 24.  He's been sub .700 OPS thus far in his career.  Doesn't mean it's going to stay that way for him.  You don't have to squint hard to envision the avg and xbh climbing for Sal in years to come. 

[brewmann04]

They need a run producer at 3rd especially with Ortiz moving  to SS who can’t produce low numbers. 

[BrewerFan]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Third basemen had the third worst OPS (.696) across the majors this season, behind second base (.677) and catcher (.680). 

The whole positional OPS means very little to me. You want more out of Frelick irrespective of what position he's playing. You don't want a .665 OPS at C, SS, 2B, but Ortiz was fine. I expect to get more out of 1B, DH and LF next year...which is really just to say a full year of Chourio, Hoskins and a full year of Yelich. We'll lose something at SS, but if-IF Frelick can be a good defender at 3B, then a 700 OPS should be fine.

The biggest thing is why are we going to be running out there. At the moment, it looks like a bunch of replacement-level players. So Frelick probably looks better than that group. I'd prefer a trade for Lowe, Suarez, signing Moncada, or anything that's short-term (two years probably being ideal). 

 

On 10/10/2024 at 4:03 PM, Thurston Fluff said:

What's the fascination with moving a sub .700 OPS outfielder who gets most of his value playing defense to a position he never played professionally? 

I don't know...but I think the Brewers have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to self-evaluation.

Also, Yelich(I'd guess he's 60/40 OF/DH), Chourio, Mitchell, Perkins, Frelick, Black, are all likely to play in the OF, no clearly answer at 3B and Murphy was talking about how shocked people would be this year with Frelick at 3B before Mitchell and then Yelich went down and Ortiz stepped up. 

 

I personally don't get the....reluctance to move or try Yelich unless he's really against it. He really shouldn't be playing in the OF with the defense we have out there and it's pretty easy to see him being at least as good as Hoskins with a little time back over there, but I guess if I'm trusting their self-scouting with Frelick, I'll trust it with Yelich. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

11 hours ago, brewmann04 said:

They need a run producer at 3rd especially with Ortiz moving  to SS who can’t produce low numbers. 

They need a run producer but I never quite get these ideas like it really matters where that guy is playing on the field.

[torts]

I don't need him to score runs, I just need him on base to be scored.  He can slap that ball this side of Sunday, need him to take a step forward like turang.  Having two guys who are on base running like gazelles will be huge, again, for yeli, Jacki, contrari and mitchell

[edfunderburk]

15 hours ago, brewmann04 said:

They need a run producer at 3rd especially with Ortiz moving  to SS who can’t produce low numbers. 

McMahon in a trade from Rockies would be a nice addition to play 3B for a few seasons 

[Thurston Fluff]

13 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I don't know...but I think the Brewers have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to self-evaluation.

Also, Yelich(I'd guess he's 60/40 OF/DH), Chourio, Mitchell, Perkins, Frelick, Black, are all likely to play in the OF, no clearly answer at 3B and Murphy was talking about how shocked people would be this year with Frelick at 3B before Mitchell and then Yelich went down and Ortiz stepped up. 

 

If there's a log jam I'd prefer they fix it via trade. Trying to wedge Frelick in at third to  make room for Back in the outfield makes zero sense to me. Just leave him at first where we don't have a logjam.

[CheezWizHed]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

They need a run producer but I never quite get these ideas like it really matters where that guy is playing on the field.

I think it comes from the thoughts that if there are a lot of players that can play a position that hit 800 OPS and you trot out someone at 700 OPS, it should be easy to upgrade the position.  

Once your roster is set, then it is just about playing the best players at their best positions.

So it is more about the commentary about the GM's options for improving the team and not where the coach plays them. 

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

McMahon in a trade from Rockies would be a nice addition to play 3B for a few seasons 

Yeah...just like Wisdom, when you said him I thought that was a great suggestion...but his home/road splits and the 12M/16M/16M he's owed?

The Rockies would have to eat a good chunk of that. 50%. And then I'd trade them Black and maybe a guy like Payamps. Although throwing out Rockies trade proposals is stupid because...they're just incredibly poorly run and they may want immediate impact players(which...I guess that accomplishes). 

[wiguy94]

18 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah...just like Wisdom, when you said him I thought that was a great suggestion...but his home/road splits and the 12M/16M/16M he's owed?

The Rockies would have to eat a good chunk of that. 50%. And then I'd trade them Black and maybe a guy like Payamps. Although throwing out Rockies trade proposals is stupid because...they're just incredibly poorly run and they may want immediate impact players(which...I guess that accomplishes). 

His home-road splits aren't as bad as you'd think. I did a deep dive on this after Jack and Spencer mentioned him as a possibility on the podcast.

Here are his home/road with RHP/LHP platoon splits over the last 3 seasons.

Home vs RHP - 87 wRC+, .332 wOBA, .331 xwOBA, .437 wOBACON, .435 xwOBACON
Road vs RHP - 114 wRC+, .336 wOBA, .353 xwOBA, .426 wOBACON, .455 xwOBACON

Home vs LHP - 105 wRC+, .359 wOBA, .344 xwOBA, .442 wOBACON, .417 xwOBACON
Road vs LHP - 39 wRC+, .225 wOBA, .259 xwOBA, .285 wOBACON, .339 xwOBACON

He's been good against RHP outside of Coors with very good underlying numbers. He can't hit LHP to save his life outside of Coors. I think he could be a great addition if you view him as a 500 PA a year guy sheltering him from LHP a bit and using him as a late inning defensive replacement at 3B/1B. 

I'd be willing to give up Tyler Black and maybe a couple lottery tickets if they were willing to eat some of McMahon's contract. Black can grow out his beard and be their Charlie Blackmon replacement. But also like you said it's just impossible to know what to expect trying to trade with the Rockies.

[BrewerFan]

8 hours ago, Thurston Fluff said:

If there's a log jam I'd prefer they fix it via trade. Trying to wedge Frelick in at third to  make room for Back in the outfield makes zero sense to me. Just leave him at first where we don't have a logjam.

I don't think anyone's said they'll do it in order to make room for Black. He's just one of MANY players I listed and after Chourio, Yelich, Mitchell, and Perkins. And I anticipate a lot of Hoskins at 1B, Yelich at DH.

Black has played 2B, 3B. If the Brewers and Murphy believe this strongly that Frelick can transition back to the IF...presumably it'd be because he's the best option...so who's to say they're forcing or wedging him in there?

 

Edit-I'm not saying we shouldn't try and address 3B via trade. I think there are a lot of trades that could do that... I'd be thrilled with Suarez, McMahon, whoever. It's probably not great if Frelick is the only or best option there. Or...maybe he moves back as Betts moved to 2B. 

 

[jay87shot]

I don't mind Frelick at 3rd for a bit. I feel like he would be a better 2B with the range probably helping. I don't see him playing everyday (like 50 games max) but I like the idea that we can open up some OF time. I still think Sal will be a 280/350/400 type hitter but maybe we should hope for 40 2B and 10 HR as a high mark. If he does well maybe he platoons with Boeve or Wilken down the road and let's them DH. Especially if Lara, Yophery, or another OF has an exceptional year and gets close by next year.

[Samurai Bucky]

If Frelick wins the Gold Glove in RF this year, it will seem a little weird moving him to 3b.

[markedman5]

2 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

If Frelick wins the Gold Glove in RF this year, it will seem a little weird moving him to 3b.

Yes it would be…..but as mentioned it would in all likelihood just be in certain situations and not full time.

Flexibility is good……and the brewers value it highly 

 

[MadScientist]

2 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

If Frelick wins the Gold Glove in RF this year, it will seem a little weird moving him to 3b.

Was Frelik's bat good enough to win the golden glove?

As for Yelich, maybe the reluctance to move him to first is because the movements he'd need to make there would put his back at additional injury risk.