Injury updates

[gregmag]

19 hours ago, Turning2 said:

I don't care about what ever nerd mythical metrics and splits etc blah blah blah that modern baseball gets erect over.

Not that you’ll care, but this is where I went from “this is a serious person whom I disagree with but who’s making reasonable points that deserve serious attention” to “no he absolutely isn’t.”

Too bad, because that just leaves me stuck on my original disagreement — which is basically that people who pound the table for deadline moves relentlessly overestimate how much in-season additions help in the postseason, underestimate the value of prospects, and want to pay a premium for what guys did in the past, three mistakes whose avoidance has gotten the Brewers where they are.

[Turning2]

58 minutes ago, gregmag said:

Not that you’ll care, but this is where I went from “this is a serious person whom I disagree with but who’s making reasonable points that deserve serious attention” to “no he absolutely isn’t.”

Too bad, because that just leaves me stuck on my original disagreement — which is basically that people who pound the table for deadline moves relentlessly overestimate how much in-season additions help in the postseason, underestimate the value of prospects, and want to pay a premium for what guys did in the past, three mistakes whose avoidance has gotten the Brewers where they are.

Correct, I do not care, but so what? It doesn't matter either way. I prefer disagreement from the exchange of differing opinions over group think, where people get cowed into the herd lest they be shunned for independent thought. A certain talk show intellectual likes to say "I prefer clarity over agreement", which is something I identify with. 

If you've read more than a couple posts of mine, you will know that I'm fairly conservative about trade targets. I do not advocate for pursuing the marquee players. There is a lot of hype about how deep the farm system is. If you have a surplus, it doesn't make sense to not try and leverage some of it attempting to fix glaring holes. True, it doesn't always work, maybe even more often than not. But as Michael Scott / Dunder Mifflin famously says "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky ". 

I will say I agree with Sveum about Ryan being more close to Burnes than my initial reaction. Burnes might have been trending down, but we also didn't get much for him because every GM knew we wouldn't / couldn't, pay him market rate (and shouldn't have). The Brewers are really handicapped in having their ability to bluff other teams castrated from them. I don't know what it would take to acquire Ryan, nobody does, but it's definitely worth pursuing. 

May be moot depending on the health status of Miz and Harrison. 

 

[SeaBass]

1 hour ago, gregmag said:

Not that you’ll care, but this is where I went from “this is a serious person whom I disagree with but who’s making reasonable points that deserve serious attention” to “no he absolutely isn’t.”

Too bad, because that just leaves me stuck on my original disagreement — which is basically that people who pound the table for deadline moves relentlessly overestimate how much in-season additions help in the postseason, underestimate the value of prospects, and want to pay a premium for what guys did in the past, three mistakes whose avoidance has gotten the Brewers where they are.

If people want this then they should just go be fans of the Padres. The Brewers have two more NLCS appearances this century than they do but they'll get the splashy moves fix they want so bad.

They have Mason Miller, a $200M+ payroll, a barren minor league system and a .500 record. But they're actually trying, y'all!

[Thurston Fluff]

22 hours ago, Turning2 said:

And that is exactly why this team is a perpetual carrot on a stick. It's always a year or two down the road when certain things are supposed to line up just right. Meanwhile they could more aggressively augment that prospect development by adding some impact along the way, players just below the top dollar guys. And they won't. 

The Brewers don't operate on the one magical year theory. They did under Melvin which culminated in 2011. It got us as far as the current way does. Minus 5 division titles and seven fewer playoff appearances. There is no such thing as a magical year until it happens. The only way to have one is to put yourself in position to have one as many times as possible.

[Turning2]

3 hours ago, SeaBass said:

If people want this then they should just go be fans of the Padres. The Brewers have two more NLCS appearances this century than they do but they'll get the splashy moves fix they want so bad.

They have Mason Miller, a $200M+ payroll, a barren minor league system and a .500 record. But they're actually trying, y'all!

Don't lump me in with that mindset. I've never advocated for pursuing top guys like Mason Miller at ridiculous prices or completely draining the farm chasing after greatness. It doesn't have to be "all in" or "almost nothing" in regard to the level of talent upgrade and potential impact of an acquisition(s).  There can be a middle ground. And that's how I view the caliber of player like Brooks Lee. Not a super star, but a reasonable upgrade. Doesn't have to be him specifically. 

It is more logical to expect an acquired very good / great player to markedly move the needle for his new ball club more than hurt them. It is also less logical to expect a serviceable / average player to markedly move the needle for his new ball club. Sure, the outcomes of such moves don't always follow the logic, and the impact of said players can be highly subjective. Does Milwaukee even have their one WS appearance if not for the huge trade for needle movers like Fingers, Vuck, Simmons, Sutton - maybe, maybe not. We're not likely to see that huge of a roster churn again because the economics are so much different now. It seems reasonable that they could make 2026 equivalent moves, whatever that might amount to. They absolutely should be able to upgrade 3B with a "Brooks Lee" type talent and "Joe Ryan" type starter, and no, that wouldn't decimate the farm or mortgage the future (of course, how that is defined is highly subjective too). 

 

[Jopal78]

4 hours ago, SeaBass said:

If people want this then they should just go be fans of the Padres. The Brewers have two more NLCS appearances this century than they do but they'll get the splashy moves fix they want so bad.

They have Mason Miller, a $200M+ payroll, a barren minor league system and a .500 record. But they're actually trying, y'all!

But isn’t the converse also true. If you got the prospect love shouldn’t you be a Rays fan? 
 

The count may be narrowing but the majority of the Brewers key contributors have still arrived via trade or as free agents. 
 

And ultimately the prospect game is a crap shoot, even the teams whose organization is skilled at developing amateur talent produces fewer stars than fans expect.  Take any organization and look at a prospect list and you’ll find it’s true.  (ex. 2021 Rays ((#1 system)) Franco, Luis Patino, Arozarena, Vidal Brujan, Brendan McKay. Xavier Edwards, McLanahan, Shane Baz, Taylor Walls, and Greg Jones!). 
 

Which isn’t to be ignorant and not recognize that a pipeline of quality young players is necessary for the Brewers to remain competitive. It’s just the tribalism of extreme prospect love that elevates the idea of “winning the trade” over actually improving the big league team. A healthy farm system is simply a means to sustained success, not an end itself. 

.

[Underachiever]

15 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

But isn’t the converse also true. If you got the prospect love shouldn’t you be a Rays fan? 
 

The count may be narrowing but the majority of the Brewers key contributors have still arrived via trade or as free agents. 
 

And ultimately the prospect game is a crap shoot, even the teams whose organization is skilled at developing amateur talent produces fewer stars than fans expect.  Take any organization and look at a prospect list and you’ll find it’s true.  (ex. 2021 Rays ((#1 system)) Franco, Luis Patino, Arozarena, Vidal Brujan, Brendan McKay. Xavier Edwards, McLanahan, Shane Baz, Taylor Walls, and Greg Jones!). 
 

Which isn’t to be ignorant and not recognize that a pipeline of quality young players is necessary for the Brewers to remain competitive. It’s just the tribalism of extreme prospect love that elevates the idea of “winning the trade” over actually improving the big league team. A healthy farm system is simply a means to sustained success, not an end itself. 

.

This kind of discussion always reminds of the Doyle Alexander-John Smoltz trade (and the Sabathia trade for MKE, of course). Haha, Tigers, you gave up a hall of famer for a 35-year-old pitcher. But, Alexander went 9-0 down the stretch in 1987 and got them into the playoffs, where they lost to the Twins. They held off Toronto by two games, and Alexander got the win against Toronto in the first game of the final series, where Detroit caught the Jays. 

Was that a bad trade for the Tigers? I'm sure it felt pretty good during that season. At some point, you have to give the front office some grace, and not re-litigate every trade 10 years down the road. I think all of the WAR computation for the various trades can get silly. Do you want an 8-WAR player this season, or a guy who gives you one WAR for 9 years so you can say you won the trade?

[JCREW]

Rob Z(ombie) has been placed on the 60-day IL.

[wiguy94]

Is Woody going to announce he's retiring after the season?

 

[DonBarclay]

5 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Is Woody going to announce he's retiring after the season?

 

I would put the odds at -750 he’s retiring. Just had another kid, making it 3 young ones. Likely faces another 1.5+ years of rehab. Nobody going to sign him to the great rehab contract the Brewers did last time around. I’d be very, very surprised if he’s not hanging it up. 

[igor67]

I'm guessing if he wanted to coach the Brewers would find a spot for him, but retirement sure makes a lot of sense.

[markedman5]

My guess would be he will announce he is done for the season……..I doubt he announces he is retiring……at least not now.

[markedman5]

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

5 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Having Hall back would be a big, big help. A guy who you can give you a few innings at a stretch.

Let's hope we can weather a couple of tough weeks, buy some time for the pitching staff, and go into October as healthy as possible.

[torts]

7 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

My guess would be he will announce he is done for the season……..I doubt he announces he is retiring……at least not now.

Left my boi a lil luv note in one of my leagues I dropped him in 💔

[dlk9s]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

My guess would be he will announce he is done for the season……..I doubt he announces he is retiring……at least not now.

I have a feeling he's announcing his retirement.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

7 minutes ago, dlk9s said:

I have a feeling he's announcing his retirement.

This would be my guess too. It's one thing to keep getting injured ligaments or tendons. It's another to come up with dead arm multiple times. Love to see Big Woo and Jim Henderson helping the pitchers out, at least. Good luck to Woodruff, and thanks for the many great moments. 

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

This would be my guess too. It's one thing to keep getting injured ligaments or tendons. It's another to come up with dead arm multiple times. Love to see Big Woo and Jim Henderson helping the pitchers out, at least. Good luck to Woodruff, and thanks for the many great moments. 

Yeah, probably needs another shoulder operation to pitch again and isn’t willing to go through it a second time. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

3 hours ago, dlk9s said:

I have a feeling he's announcing his retirement.

Pretty sure if he does that, he forfeits the rest of his salary. That is a lot of cash to give up.  They can always work out a deal.  But I would not put it past Woodruff to do something like that.  Maybe he goes into coaching right away.

[Team Canada]

1 hour ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Pretty sure if he does that, he forfeits the rest of his salary. That is a lot of cash to give up.  They can always work out a deal.  But I would not put it past Woodruff to do something like that.  Maybe he goes into coaching right away.

Well right, he's not going to actually retire, he'd announce his intent to retire at the end of the season.

[thebruce44]

Devastated. I hope he can take some time to be a father in the short term and remains in the organization long term.

[liveforoctober]

In his presser after the "I'll let him announce what he's going to announce" quote... Murphy said (paraphrase) "it's tragic knowing what he meant to this organization and what he meant to this year's team"..

I don't remember it word for word but he spoke in past tense both times. So, yeah.. don't need to guess too much that his season, at minimum, is over.

[torts]

Sal might be out now, good thing they already brought lara up and didn't trade mitchell 🤣 but I swear to ***** if they bring up perkins.....

Edited yesterday at 10:08 AM by torts

[cragi]

Yeah the timing on Leonard is disappointing in that maybe he otherwise gets a shot here. But Perkins needs some time figuring things out before returning.

Its not obvious what the next move is. Black hasnt exactly impressed with either offense or defense but he bats left.

Would love to see room made for getting adams bat up here, maybe sending Bauers to the OF. Adamszewski would be a nice fit but they aren't going to dip to AA

[formerlybis]

Lockridge is supposed to be available “in late July”, so theoretically, he’ll be the more logical permanent replacement when he’s able. Just need someone for a couple weeks.